What’s the go with Jo? – Reflecting on my narrative interview

Last week a conducted a narrative interview with my boss Jo, who was an incredibly easy choice for me. Working alongside her I get to pick up on many of her work ethics and values, but getting to listen to how she perceives them was really eye-opening and rewarding. 

Preparing

Preparing for a narrative interview was a little bit more difficult than I anticipated, as using the narrative practice “the absent but implicit” requires you to directly respond to their statements, so theirs only so many questions you can have prepared. For me this meant I prepared around six questions that I felt would allow Joanna to expand on her professional values and actions. But this was also accompanied by a series of enquiring questions that were utilised by “The Absent but Implicit: A Map to Support Therapeutic Enquiry” such as:

• How do you think that affects how you…
• What do you think people would have observed from you in that moment
• How do you think you responded to…
• Have you done anything like this before?
• If you could label this action what would you call it?

(Hands reaching) Photo by youssef naddam on Unsplash

This helped me to encourage Jo to reveal her preferred story, as she had to go beyond the expression that she was relaying. Also having these prepared enabled me to double listen without getting too distracted by the next direction to lead the conversation to.

Something interesting that I mentioned at the end of my presentation is the restraint you face as an interviewer to not jump in and express your perspective of the interviewee in order to go against their self-critiques. When Jo would mention her self doubt, or feeling like a “crazy-person” or thinking she “waited too long”, my immediate response was to jump in and let her know how I perceived these actions. As for me, I saw her as leader who always had our best interest in mind, and who made the right calls at the right time for the right reasons, but you cannot interject yourself into how someone perceives their own actions, as it reveals more about their own values and ethics.

Presenting

(Two Purple-crowned Lorikeets) Photo by McGill Library on Unsplash

When discussing Jo’s tendency to be a perfectionist during my presentation, I actually reached my own discovery about my values and our relationship. This occurred because I discussed how when you are with someone who expresses self-doubt or stickling for perfection, I find it very easy to provide them with self-assurance, confidence and walk them through the situation. In a way that becomes very self-soothing, as I find it much easier to be optimistic and encouraging when other people are battling with their own thoughts, rather than providing myself with positive self-talk. So although I can very much relate (notice that I’m saying I and not WE 😉 ) to Jo’s experiences personally, working together enables me to balance out my own intentions and focus on providing extra support for both others and myself.  

When reading through the chat during my presentation it was great to see so many quotes that had stuck out to people, especially because when you keep relistening to an interview you forget about the things that immediately hit you when first first spoken. I was glad to see a lot of people were also struck by Jo’s comment:

“if you’re not embarrassed by your first product that you’ve put out, then you’ve waited too long”.

I can personally relate to that experience of self doubt and hesitancy, and although having expectations and wanting to improve on projects is beneficial, Jo demonstrated to me that at the end of the day you need to be honest with yourself. Especially because this is a great strength of Jo’s that she is hard worker and very thoughtful throughout the entire process of producing something, so it’s a good demonstration of how you can use these strengths without becoming your own worst critic. 

(Legs sticking out of ocean) Photo by Klara Kulikova on Unsplash

References:

Carey, M. Walther, S & Russell, S (2009) “The Absent but Implicit: A Map to Support Therapeutic Enquiry” Family Process, Vol. 48, No.3, 2009, FPI, Inc

Freedman, J (2021) “Explorations of the absent but implicit” The International Journal of Narrative Therapy and Community Work, No.4, Dulwich Centre

Leaving The Familiar – Narrative Reflection

Source: Tumblr

For six years I worked in the same local retail store. Everything there was very familiar to me, the customers, the workers, clock-in, clock-out. It wasn’t until I decided to leave to focus on my second job, that my very familiar safety blanket was taken away.

While I knew my time had come (like an overly ripe banana that is now attracting fruit flies), I was still scared to no longer have that job as my safety net. The job I moved onto is in the field I am studying, had a great work environment, challenged me and even got me excited for Mondays… So why was it hard for me to leave the job that I dreaded behind?

Externalising conversations involves the recollection of an experience in order to name actions and values that are understood, by separating the person from the problem.

Source: Reddit – Retail Persona

My retail job made me feel like I knew what I was doing, and I knew how to measure my success. Did the customer leave happy, did you correctly count the money in the draw, did you crisply fold that mound of scrunched clothes?

While my new job made me question myself more. Did I say the right thing, do they think I am too young and inexperienced, am I the right person for the job? This sudden change in experience made me feel like I had imposter syndrome, as a constantly questioned whether or not my boss knew my experience level, or if she got my resume jumbled up.

I knew this transition was going to be hard, but I also knew the only way to overcome it was through my perception of it.

“Once problems are externalised they can then be put into story-lines.”

Carey and Russell, 2002

While my new job made me question myself more, it wasn’t because I wasn’t capable of doing it, it was because I cared about it more. Or the only reason why my old job felt like a safety blanket was because I was there for so long that I felt confident in what I was doing, not because I was meant to stay there.

By ripping off the bandaid (the bandaid being retail) I was able to dedicate more time to my new job, and realise that being in a role that made me feel inexperienced was really just an indication that the role would allow me to learn, grow and improve.

While I knew I was backed by my family, friends and workplace to make this change, I can realise that the only person that was holding back was me. “De-centring” (Carey & Russell, 2002) this issue meant I could reflect on how although it is important to be mindful and considered when making changes, the only reason why I was questioning myself is because this new job was really important to me.

This is something that I believe is evident in other areas of my life, as my decision making often involves considering many aspects of the situation. But I believe it has made me quite a thoughtful person, so although I can be stuck in the “what if” spiral, I know that I am able to talk through choices and possibilities to reach decisions. So in an industry where I am required to not only plan for the future but think on the spot, I am grateful for this considered approach.

By participating in externalising conversations I was able to focus into this change and how it reflected on me as not only a worker but an individual. Michael White (2007) noted that “By encouraging the recollection of significant, forgotten details, it seeks to generate more nuanced accounts of people’s lives, enabling them to consider wider ranges of possibilities for the future.” This was really important to me when externalising this disruption, as changing jobs seems like a straightforward process, from one chapter to another, but by delving into my experience I could self reflect on how my ability to make considered choices could also create an environment of self doubt.

According to Michael White (2007), externalising a conversation involves developing accounts of what they intend for their lives. So instead of focusing on how I continued to question myself, I chose to focus on how my ability to make thoughtful decisions has helped me in the workplace, and is a value that will assist me in times of change for the rest of my life.

This experience-near narrative allowed me to “de-centre” the issues I faced during disruption, as I could recognise how they were created. As when externalising a conversation you can explain “what you wish to do away with” (my hesitations and self-doubt) whilst “retaining abilities” (my thoughtful considered approach to decision making)(Carey & Russell, 2002).

Michael White (2005) specifically encourages the enquiry into the imposing “nature of self-talk” when externalising conversations. This was essential to narrative self-development, as it was only when I put myself back into that experience that I could recall how it initially inhibited my ability to back myself.

Resources:

Carey, M & Russell, S (2002) “Narrative therapy: Responding to your questions” The International Journal of Narrative Therapy and Community Work, 2002 No.2, 

White, M (2005) “Michael White Workshop Notes” Dulwich Centre, pp.2-4

White, M (2007) “Maps of narrative practice” W W Norton & Co.

The Skill of Fakin’ It Till You Make It

No matter what industry you’re in, I’ve learnt a willingness to try, assimilate and improve is key, even if you think you don’t have enough experience.

I’m currently in my final year of my digital and social media degree, and work in marketing for a startup out of iAccelerate.

Original work by Alligates

While my resume might try and use some fun buzzwords to describe my skills like “provided technical support” (answered the phone), “skilled in cash management” (counted the register) or “provided top quality customer care” (said ‘hey how are you going today’ and was always down for a chat), really my most important skill I learnt is a willingness to try, ask questions and improve.

Back when I was 15 I first started working in retail (and would end up staying at that store for 6 years…). While I wasn’t experienced in talking to “adults” I had to pretend I was, because I knew no middle aged woman would take my refund refusal seriously if I acted as though I was scared to talk to her.

Then when I was 19 I was asked to become a duty manager, which meant learning a few more “behind the scenes” things but mainly I just got to carry around a set of keys which was cool. While I didn’t feel like a manager and often felt a little scared when I was left alone to manage the store, I knew that all I could do was ask lots of questions, act confident in my decisions and back up my team.

Original post Spoiler alert: I actually did work at Target.

Currently I work in marketing (or as a marketing executive as my email signature says) which initially just started off as an unpaid internship last year. What’s interesting is that I’ve never actually taken a marketing class…

In my current work I’ll do everything from making chat bots, do user testing, research statistics, scrape contacts, set up automations, create social media posts and EDMs. Even though this is my first time doing all these things, my boss knows she can “leave it with me”.

And besides, who needs technical skills when there is a YouTube tutorial for it…